Curse

Lord Dark Genie · Jul 09, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

maybe some sort of ranger buff? I'd like to see them buffed so they can hold their own a bit instead of being a niche roll (spirit spammer, thumper, or spiker. that's about it)

You forgot trappers and CripShotters... Crip Shot Rangers are already pretty strong and versatile characters

JR · Jul 09, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

You forgot trappers and CripShotters... Crip Shot Rangers are already pretty strong and versatile characters

Trappers are so underrated, because very few can actually play them properly.

Patrograd · Jul 09, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Trappers are so underrated, because very few can actually play them properly.

I agree, a good trapper in GvG is a great character, but it takes quite a bit of playing.

Personally I think Rangers are fine generally, great versatile characters that you can do a whole lot of stuff with. They have been heavily nerfed in the past, but I think that now they are balanced pretty much perfectly

tomcruisejr · Jul 09, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

You forgot trappers...

you mean spike trappers right? coz oathshot trappers are meh.

Celab · Jul 09, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

Mostly agree, though there are a couple decent ones that aren't run because people ussualy want an assassain as a gank force, making AoD the obvious elite of choice.

Obviously havnt been over to the assasin sub forum, theres a 6 skill set up which basicaly ganks without AoD. the other 2 are basicaly a rez + purge. If you have a competent monk w/ windborne speed itll make life much easier, but atm this set up can kill warriors in <10 seconds taking minimal damage.

Tainek · Jul 09, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

Good luck saving an immoble target from 4 warriors without using enchantments. It just doesn't work. The reason these enchants need to come into play is so the ghost even has a chance of not dieing.

Weapon Of Warding
Ward Against Melee

Two Skills, and suddently those warriors dont look so scary anymore, and i havent even looked at any enchantments

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 10, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

Weapon Of Warding
Ward Against Melee

Two Skills, and suddently those warriors dont look so scary anymore, and i havent even looked at any enchantments

The most important enchantment isn't actually direct warrior hate - Spellbreaker is what makes or breaks the ghostly hero, not because of damage spells, but because of hexes. Even reduced by wards, ritualist spirits, and weapon spells, any damage looks a whole lot scarier when you're dealing with 66% healing reduction, Rigor Mortis, Expose Defenses, or any number of other hexes which will negate whatever non-enchantment prot or healing you decide to throw on.

That's the reason soul barbs spike is so effective - the stacked hexes combined with a lot of damage kill any attempts at healing the target.

suiraCLAW · Jul 10, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

This thread got me thinking

My complete: buff/nerf list: (in code tag because it's quite a lot)

Code:

nerfs:
- Recurring Insecurity -> on top of the hex if it is reaplied
- Air of ench -> minimum cost = 1
- order of apostacy -> if enchant is removed, it ends on the warrior that hitted the target + reduce sac.

buffs:
warriors:
-flourish -> no cast time
-primal rage -> attack speed increase (25%)
-battle rage -> attack speed increase (25%)
-dwarven battle stand -> attack speed increase (25%) 
-hundreds blades -> decrease recharge
-whirling axe -> increase dmg
-cleave -> causes bleeding and/or cripling

monk:
-Spirit bond -> reactions on life stealing damage (counter against touch rangers etc)
-amity -> ends when foe takes physical dmg + longer duration + increase range
-life sheat -> decrease recharge
-healing burst -> less energy lose and/or non-touch range
-ray of judgement -> decrease recharge, decrease cost, improve range
-word of censure -> increase dmg and/or decrease cost

ranger:
-archer signet -> reduce recharge and/or dmg bonus
-equinox -> decrease recharge
-famine -> decrease recharge
-lacerate -> decrease recharge
-glass arrows -> increase dmg + non-evadable
-heal as one -> ability to res pet
-incendiary arrows -> decrease recharge and/or increase duration

necromancer:
-cultist fervor -> increase duration and/or decrease recharge and/or decrease sac cost
-soul bind -> KD if foe is attacking or running when hexed
-weaken knees -> snare effect (25%)
-plague signet -> life steal for each condition removed

mesmer:
-lyssa's aura -> cast on target ally (?)

elementalist:
-glimmering mark -> increase duration
-gust -> decrease cast time
-mirror of ice -> cast on target ally (?)
-shatterstone -> spammable: 5 Energy/1 Cast time/2 recharge
-Ride the lightning -> KnockDown effect

assasin:
-beguiling gaze -> decrease cost
-palm strike -> causes bleeding and/or cripple and/or poison + more damage and/or KD
-siphon strength -> increase duration 
-seeping wound -> deadly arts + increase duration + huge effect (-6 degen max)
-way of the empty palm -> increase duration and/or decrease recharge (being able to use it constant etc) + attack speed increase (33%) + will decrease recharge of attack skills (-50% time?)

ritualist:
-clamour of souls -> increase range (extremely)
-preservation -> decrease recharge + healing every sec 
-spirit channeling -> decrease degen (-2 pips) + decrease recharge (10) and/or increase duration (15 secs)
-spirit light weapon -> doesn't end when not in range of spirit + triple healing when in range of spirit
-tranquil was tanasen -> can't be KD'ed while holding ashes and using a skill + decrease recharge (15 secs)
-wanderlust -> decrease recharge
-signet of spirits -> health gain + decrease recharge (10 secs) + reacts on allies (new iway?) + slightly decrease of energy gain (max 15 energy)
-damage buff for all channeling spells (150% of current?)

skills I would like to change:
-skull crack, hammer mastery, elite, 5/0/5, If this attack hits, you strike for +1..20 damage. If you hit a knocked-down foe that foe is dazed and suffer from Deep Wound for 5...20 seconds
-withdraw hexes, divine favor, elite, 10/3/15, Remove all Hexes from target ally and all allies in the area. You lose 10...5 Energy for each Hex removed in this way.
-restoration, communing, 10/5/60, Create a level 1...8 spirit, The next time a  ally would recieve damage that would be fatal, the damage is negetated and that ally is healed for 10...150 health and this spirit dies. This spirit dies after  10...20 seconds.

I only listed elites that aren't usefull in pvp nor pve.

I actually wonder why everybody keeps crying for nerfs: I think that the fact that there are only a few usefull elites left ruin the game more then the fact that some of these elites are hard to counter (but offcourse: that's my opinion

).

Fenix Swiftblade · Jul 10, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Just so you know, your version of skull crack is actually in the game, and known as crushing blow.

The thing I would like to see buffed is Ride The Lightning. Either remove the exauhstion, or give it a KD. Make it the elite shock. As it is now, it's just a much worse version of AoD.

suiraCLAW · Jul 10, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Just so you know, your version of skull crack is actually in the game, and known as crushing blow.

That was a typo, fixed.

Zeldawind · Jul 11, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Trappers are so underrated, because very few can actually play them properly.

QFT so hard!

In my previous guild i was the trapper in a designated split build. I stopped Ganking from the other team (or slow down how ever you want to say it), I could help in the defense so freaking hard. Even in 8v8 a trapper pwns so hard.
And in every GvG where i was the trapper i was the target after 20 minutes cuz they were starting to realize my role in the build. After a while we tried the smae build whit a E/Mo HP spammer to c if the trapper was really usefull and we couldnt maintain ourself then in 8v8 and the damage output was less aswell. So if a trapper is played properly it can be a huge advantage in defense and offense.

But a reason why not everyone can play them properly is cuz not everyone can dream every map. Ive spent like 1 hour on every map to learn it. To c ganking possiblities and every possible walking path that will be used properly. And during a battle you need to watch the battle closely for the movement of warriors or other characters so you know where to place your traps. It isnt a easy job but if you got a good 1 then you can create a huge advantage to yourself.

Khift · Jul 12, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

If anything, AoE needs a buff and not a nerf in order to make it semi useful for a prot monk. As it is, when you take Zealot's Fire out of the picture, it is just a quirky little useless elite that you will never see outside of RA. No better than Seeping Wound, Whirling Axe, Flourish, Stolen Speed or any of the other usual suspects. Okay, okay, it'd be a bit better than Seeping Wound, but no matter.

Zealot's Fire, on the other hand, needs to go. You see, the problem with Zealot's Fire is that even if they nerf AoE now like they did Ether Renewal before they will still have to watch every single new form of energy management be it elite or not to make dead certain that they don't break Zealot's Fire again. For as long as Zealot's Fire remains intact no form of triggerable and reuseable energy management can exist and be useable for fear of breaking Zealot's Fire.

When it comes to SBRI, though, it would seem that breaking the unintended synergy between SB and RI would reduce the build to it's intended power level. It'd still be decent, just no longer game wreckingly powerful. Just fix the bug with RI that caused this build to become broken in the first place.

Of other concerns are ritualists and assassins. Both of these classes seem to be completely dominated by one elite each, and with reason. Not only are they both fairly overpowered (Moreso with Ritual Lord than AoD) they simply have no competition. While these two elites don't necessarily need a nerf, their competitors are in absolutely desperate need of buffs.

And then there is the rest, the junk. I'm sure everyone would like to see a Flourish buff someday. I know I wouldn't mind playing in a format defined by the amazing power of Healing Burst, either. But as nice as it would be, don't hold your breath. There can only be so many amazing skills in the format at any one time.

cookiemonkie · Jul 12, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

If anything, AoE needs a buff
Zealot's Fire, on the other hand, needs to go.

If AoE gets a buff than Zealots fire has to COST something for the dmg its going to be dishing out. The cost has to go somewhere, but I still disagree the cost of AoE is too good, nothing should come for free. Moving AoE should come at the expense of moving slightly slower if its going to do high damage, or do wand damage is a decent balance. Being able to heal, prot and dish out AoE damage has to come at a greater cost than it would be for an AoE Elementalist...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

Of other concerns are ritualists and assassins. Both of these classes seem to be completely dominated by one elite each, and with reason.

The same could be said about eles and Ether Prodigy, each of these class has an elite that fits their designated roles on the battle field best in the current metagame.

JR · Jul 12, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

If anything, AoE needs a buff and not a nerf in order to make it semi useful for a prot monk. As it is, when you take Zealot's Fire out of the picture, it is just a quirky little useless elite that you will never see outside of RA.

Er, Air Of Enchantment was designed to work like that with Zealots Fire in a smite build. Why would you take Zealot's fire out of the picture?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

Zealot's Fire, on the other hand, needs to go. You see, the problem with Zealot's Fire is that even if they nerf AoE now like they did Ether Renewal before they will still have to watch every single new form of energy management be it elite or not to make dead certain that they don't break Zealot's Fire again. For as long as Zealot's Fire remains intact no form of triggerable and reuseable energy management can exist and be useable for fear of breaking Zealot's Fire.

What are you talking about? Air Of Enchantment only broke the Zealot's Fire build because it made spamming enchantments on the target cost *nothing*. Ether Renewal simply gave you absolutely ridiculous energy regen, doing effectively the same thing. No other balanced Energy Management skill will ever do the same job as those two.

Zealot's Fire has been nerfed into mediocrity once, it was Air of Enchantment that resurrected it, not vice-versa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

Of other concerns are ritualists and assassins. Both of these classes seem to be completely dominated by one elite each, and with reason. Not only are they both fairly overpowered (Moreso with Ritual Lord than AoD) they simply have no competition. While these two elites don't necessarily need a nerf, their competitors are in absolutely desperate need of buffs.

I would agree with buffs, but then there are hundreds of skills in this game that already need a buff. I would certainly not agree with AoD being overpowered, Ritual Lord probably does need a tweak though. As for classes being dominated by one elite each; that's nothing new either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

1. Adjusting the behaviour of Recurring Insecurity to make it "renew" rather than "re-apply", so the duration is extended as the developers intended, yet it doesn't trigger the second Soul Barbs proc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

When it comes to SBRI, though, it would seem that breaking the unintended synergy between SB and RI would reduce the build to it's intended power level. It'd still be decent, just no longer game wreckingly powerful. Just fix the bug with RI that caused this build to become broken in the first place.

It's not a bug, as with smite; that is how it was designed to work. Izzy WANTED a hex spike type of build. And it's not the synergy between the two that breaks the build, it's the current stacking of healing reduction hexes to 66%, as opposed to 33%. Not to mention how Enduring Toxin was bugged to trigger approximately 60 bajillion times a second.

I think after the stacking is fixed it may be close to balanced, although may need some kind of further tweaking such as increased recharge times on RI perhaps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

2. Adding some form of "after cast delay" to the bulk of the 1/4 second assassin hexes that are being used. Similar to the "after cast delay" that comes with Crystal Wave. Increasing the casting times of these hexes would be counter to the spirit of a melee fighter, so I don't support increasing their casting times. But a modest "after cast delay" would stop them from being chain-cast as ridiculously fast as they are now.

There isn't really any problem with the speed that SBRI spikes; it is no faster than a good PP/SD rangerspike or something. The problem is that the spike *can* last 10 seconds and still kill the target fairly easily.